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From: regard@hpsdde.sdd.hp.com (Adrienne Regard)
Subject: Sudan/Hay in general
Date: 19 Aug 1993 16:54:35 -0700
Hi,
I had posed a question to this net a few days ago, about hays. I wanted
to let you all know what I had discovered. All the comments below that
are not specifically related to a source represent the _opinion_ of the
people I talked to.
Re SUDAN hay.
My trainer had some dim memory of Sudan being toxic. What I discovered was
(according to the Merck Vet manual) Sudan GRASS is toxic, causing Cyanide
poisoning symptoms (Sorgum grass is similar) and thus you shouldn't graze
on Sudan pasture. However, 'properly cured' Sudan Hay is fine.
The local (highly respected) feedstore used to carry Sudan, but it got too
expensive as it became a popular hay for export to Japan (for cattle). They
did not know of any toxicity problems. A hay distributor reports that it
"makes horses constipated" (I have not noticed this problem; I have been
feeding Sudan as one of three meals a day to three horses for a week. Maybe
not long enough, maybe it's effect is cut by the other feeds, maybe this
guy is wrong.) My vet says Sudan hay should be fine, but recommends feeding
it in a mix since it's not a protein or mineral rich food. He knows of no
toxicity problems. Word of mouth from my trainer's vet was that a diet of
Sudan may cause abortion in pregnant mares.
I've decided, since my horses *love* the stuff, to order some more and
continue to feed 2 bermuda and 1 sudan meals per day to the ponies, and
1 bermuda, 1 sudan and 1 alfalfa meal to my TB mare. I'll let you know if
I see any problems.
Re Bermuda:
My reading reports there is a kind of toxicity problem with Bermuda Grass
hay, too, when the hay is not properly cured, or a kind of parasite/fungus
grows on the Bermuda (similar to Fescue problems). Since we don't have
this kind of problem in Southern California, the information I got wasn't
too complete: folks around here don't need to deal with it. My trainer
reports that her vet claimed Bermuda was a gas-producing hay, and, fed in
large quantities could cause gas colic. She found this to be true for her
Quarterhorse, Trakener and TB horses. I have not seen any problem with my
ponies and TB (yet). She experienced the problem with only 1 feed out of
3 being Bermuda, similar to what I expect to feed. We'll see. It may be
a problem with the kind of cutting (early or late season) or the irrigation
(there is a noticable difference in irrigated vs. non-irrigated Oat hay,
for example), too.
Bermuda is cut only a few times a year, and you always want a cutting that
has seed in it. A cutting *for* seed in June may leave only stalks for a
hay cutting in August, and that's practically worthless as horse feed.
Re "Orchard Grass" or "Meadow Grass""
This is the kind of hay I bought early this year and loved. It's very
gold/cream in color (i.e., doesn't *look* tastie) but the horses went for
it big time. It's a somewhat generic label, and may be different grasses
in different areas, so beware. Buy a few bales as a trial first before you
buy lots more. Orchard/Meadow grasses are basically fescue with other
grasses mixed in, probably Broome, for one, which is an excellent horse
feed, as well as some Timothy, which is also excellent. Generally, one
only gets one cutting of this kind of hay per year, so it isn't a high
volume product for farmers.
The bigger factors in our area (rather than type of hay) is demand. Timothy
is prohibitively expensive, because the TB farms feed it for racehorses.
Easily twice as expensive as alfalfa, and not easily found.
Sudan has this reputation as far as cattle feed is concerned, as you may
have gathered from the above. The field output is generally bought before
the sprouts are out of the ground. My supplier either had a bumper crop,
or lost his Japanese client. He normally doesn't have it available at this
price.
Oat hay is available in this area, but my horses won't eat it. We can find
both irrigated and non-irrigated versions (the former is the higher yield)
and some horses are quite sensitive to the additional salts in the irriga-
tion water, and won't accept it. I didn't try both kinds, and I don't expect
to, since I don't care to attract mice.
Alfalfa is plentiful in our area. Generally, it's from irrigated fields,
but the horses love the stuff regardless. First cuttings are very rich.
Second cuttings are usually poor (in nutrition). Third and fourth (and
up) cuttings are somewhere in the middle, because flowers are generally
contained in them. You want fine stems, and lots of flowers for nutritional
value, but be careful that the hay is *dry*. Lots of leaves and flowers
mean lots of moisture: there is greater spoilage with poorly cured first
cutting than any other. My dealer says alfalfa can be stored and maintain
good food value for 2 years. I tried that a couple years ago, and felt
that the hay held up well, but obviously wasn't as full of nutrients in
the last bale as in the first. Our area has high calcium, and with the
salts in our water, alfalfa is suspected in causing stones, which is one
of the reasons people are moving away from it. The extra protien in
alfalfa should *not* be considered a problem for normal horses, as it is
routinely and easily handled by healthy kidneys. A very old horse with
bad kidneys may have trouble with it.
Broome, advertised as such, is generally not available in this area.
That's the result of my research in this area. Hay prices at this time
of year: Alfalfa: $7-$8 for 100-125 lb bales
Bermuda: $6-$7
Sudan: $7-$8
Timothy: $14-$18
Oat: $7
Now, judging by last year, hay prices will go up between $1 and $3 per bale
in the height of winter. Generally, the quality is the same, since it's
the same cuttings, stored in the farmer's barn. You are paying him for
storage. For some reason I've forgotten, the dealers expect to be very
short on Oat hay this winter in this area.
Adrienne Regard
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