| Talking Tack
Kris note - I posted 3 questions to informally survey use, understanding and to promote discussion.
- Other than saddle and bridle, what extras (wraps, pads, martingales, cruppers, draw reins, etc.) do you use on your horse when you ride?
- What is your reason for using these extras?
- What affect/effect do these extras have?
From: Laura Celmins
1) I ride the Fig in a snaffle bridle w/figure-8 noseband, bell boots,
and SMBS.
2) I dont think that SMBs are all that great, but the vet said he felt
something like a splint (not remembering here...) and said he'd like to
see us work the boy in some sort of leg protection. I have SMBs that my
mom bought me back in the day (I find them cumbersome, when I have $$ I
want Woof boots) so thats what I use. I have pull on bell boots because
hes a big mover and I want to prevent him from nicking himself. I use
the figure-8 because when we first started working him, he would go on
the bit but would be trying to open his mouth. With the figure-8 he
can't do that.
3) The boots, nothing. The figure-8 doesn't let him cross his jaw or
open his mouth as evasive techniques and lets me worry about other
things instead of worrying if hes doing those - then I can just push for
straightness, etc.
From: Grace and Buzz
1) I use a running martingale..and do spurs count? Or a loose tie-down
if I ride with the hackamore.
2) there is no reason to me...so I need to talk to my trainer about
letting me ride without it, since I did agree to ride with a
Kimberwicke. I rode him without it yesterday and he was fine. The
tie-down I guess is also a safety thing...its loose so it doesn't do a
whole lot unless he really got his head up there. I think she wants
people to use them with hackamores, because one of her good friends
broke her back when the hackamore she had on her horse broke and he took
off. And I know that can happen...it happened to me.
3) when he raises his head past a certain point it puts downward
pressure on the bit. Although how loose you have the reins has to come
into account, too. The tie-down does the same thing only acts on the
nose.
From: Sarah Hluchan
Kris's questions....for all *3* horses <G>
Regal: Thoroughbred, Gelding, 15, usually mellow but has had a month off
Derby: Thoroughbred, Mare, 12 or so, a little hyper and nutsy but sweet
Irish, Standardbred, Gelding, 20, SOOO sweet and calm
1)
Regal: we used to use a breastplate on him but we stopped awhile back
b/c when he put some weight on the saddle no longer slipped as much. I
ride him in a rambo dressage type pad, then a white hunter pad under my
saddle. (I use the same saddle on all 3 horses a Pessoa close contact).
He also wears sports medicine boots (large) on his front feet and polos
on his back feet. Sometimes when we do harder jumping he wears bell or
over reach boots as well.
Derby: a thinner dressage saddle pad under the regular one (I use 2 pads
on all the horses - almost everyone at my barn does). a running
martinagle, and splint boots when we jump harder stuff which isn't often
since I mostly school her on the flat.
Irish: Nothing at all except the second saddle pad!
2)
Regal: Breastplate - helped keep saddle from slipping SMBS - support his
legs Polos- protect his legs Bellboots/over reach boots - keep him from
grabbing shows Extra Saddle pad- protects his 'good' white pad and adds
extra padding to his slightly bony back (well it WAS...now he's fat!)
Derby: Extra saddle pad: (see above w/ Regal) Martinagle: because thats
how Kelli and Chrissy want her ridden <EG> helps stop her from pulling I
guess... Splint boots: to help support her legs.
Irish: Saddle pad: (se above) Nothing: b/c he's not especially skinny,
has good legs, and is just easy to ride?
3)
Regal: Breastplate - helped keep saddle from slipping SMBS - support his
legs and reduces lameness and keeps him from getting stiff and all.
Polos- protect his legs by making it slightly less painful when he hits
a rail or does something dumb. Bellboots/over reach boots - makes it
slightly harder for him to throw shoes Extra Saddle pad- reduces my
laundry time (when I wash our good pad I have to bleach it then wash in
plain water a 2nd time to make sure all bleach is out!) <EG>, is
presumably good for his back...
Derby: Saddle pad: (see above) Martinagle: reduces how much she can pull
on me.....(sometimes) keeps her head down (sometimes to much)....I'm not
a big fan of this but.... Splint boots: supports her legs/ makes me and
Kelli feel better.
Irish: Saddlepad: see above
From: Ashton
1) I have a Bay Jocobsen saddle pad (has a visco elastic pad insert),
running martingale for XC and sometimes jumping, I usually school
bare-legged unless i'm jumping(or XC ) Boots- closed front
boots(eskadrons)
2) Bay Jacobsen Pad- it's preventative ,so her back doesn't GET
sore(don't always use it sometimes I use a normal pad with a gel pad)
Running Martingale- sometimes if I have to get her going slower or
shorten her stride on XC/Jumping he starting doing her nice little
condensed bouncing canter/gallop with her head in the air.She'll he
covering less ground but still have her power to take off(don't always
use it)
Boots- protective just in case she bumps over self going over a jump or
of hits herself on a jump(I don't always use them)
3) The running keeps her head down so I keep my control at a comfortable
level. The others are preventative/protection
From: Julia
1) Absolutely none :)
2) Or lack therof? Probably because Donna's a no-gadget gal <G> And
nobody challenges that. Even with the saddle bred with the amazingly
high head carriage (one which would have a different person screaming
for a standing martingale) - no gizmos. The ONLY horse who has an
attachment is Ginger, who wears a flash noseband to stop her from
evading so much.
3) It keeps her mouth closed so that she and her rider can get on with
more important things - she accepts it (i.e. - foam) so much better.
From: Emma Kenyon
1) When I ride Emily wears very little because gadgets upset her. She
has a flash noseband and wears polo wraps or neoprene brushing boots.
Before I ride her, however, I long rein and double lunge (it's spelt
l-u-n-g-e, or if you're American l-o-n-g-e, not l-o-u-n-g-e - that's a
chair!) her with a set of driving reins and a roller. I don't carry spurs
or a whip.
2) The noseband - it makes her face look a bit better (she is soooo
ugly) ;) My flash isn't tight enough to do anything useful, although the
cavesson is done up relatively firmly (still well and truly three
fingers of space). The long reins and roller - we have a system and the
best way to warm her up is on the ground, because she can get all of her
naughtiness out of her system and so by the time I'm ready to mount up
she is in a decent frame of mind. I also work her a little bit, we work
on transitions (it's just like riding with two reins in your hands - I
can feel and see), basic lateral work (I'm too unco-ordinated past
travers), my instructor usually asks for baby passage steps (she is
guuud at these) etc. If anyone has any alternatives that doesn't
involve flicking them bits of rope around her head and chanting a mantra
and/or paying copious amounts of money to a particular guru, LMK.
And she wears boots because she is too expensive to replace or have
unsound if she bangs herself - they stop her from getting little nicks.
3) Noseband - well, very little. Boots? Very little. Roller and long
reins - well, it's just like riding her only better because I can feel
what she is doing through the reins and see it even more clearly so we
can nab problems before I bother to get on.
From: KT and Expresso
Expresso, Thoroughbred, Gelding, 12 Is really a joy to ride (when you
know how to ride him..) and its pretty mellow once he gets out of his
stall more then every 2 days..
1) I use a 1 1/2" Build up pad for Expresso, and some times bell boots
if he's out running around or while I'm lunging him.
2) The Build up pad is just like a Lolly pop pad but doesn't get
scrunched up, because my dressage saddle sits to low on his back. And
the Bell boots just to keep his front hooves from knock together and
chipping the other hooves are to keep his over reaching strides from
knocking his front hooves and chipping them.
3) The build up pad helps absorb Expresso's bouncyness. And the bell
boots are to keep his over reaching strides from knocking his front
hooves and chipping them.
From: Xtina G
1) Well it all depends, right now i have just been riding my horse very
plain. Basically a bumber pad, a shock asorber pad, and to fleece pads.
it may sound like alot but it really isn't and a breastcollar are all i
have been using on her, i used to use SMX boots on her all the time, but
they disappered, so everyonce in awhile when i am in the mood i will
wrap her front legs with polos.
2) The bumper pad is used to lift my saddle up because she has high
withers and my saddle isn't straight like it should be. The shock
absorber, i have always used to make sure her back won't get sore, and
the extra fleece pad is to i can put the shock aborber between the two
fleece pads so it won't slip. The breast collar helps me so my saddle
won't slip back since she has high withers. Ever since i got her at
3(she is now 7) I always rode her in splint boots, to insure that she
won't get splints, but i haven't used them since my boots disappered.
So when i feel like it i use the polos for the same reason
3) Just to insure that my horse and i are both comfortable.
I every once in awhile may use some different, like draw reins or a
bumper bit, or a german martingale, but those are used for when ever i
need to fix something.
From: Leah J
1) There are two school horses at my barn with extremely high and bony
withers. Because most saddles don't fit (I would need a specially made
saddle for both) I use a closed-cell bounce pad under the saddle when I
ride them.
2) I use the bounce pad to absorb the pressure of the saddle and to keep
pressure from the pommel of the saddle off these two horses' withers.
The bounce pad keeps the saddle from making their backs and withers
sore. Of course, in an ideal situation, I would get a saddle that could
fit these horses correctly so I wouldn't have to use excess pads and
such, but as I don't own them and don't ride them that often, I can't.
From: Rachel F
1) I kind of vary. Normally, for schooling, our extras include a fleece
with cotton quilting against his belly girth cover, black SMB IIs in
front, and bit keepers on his full-cheek snaffle (if that's an extra).
Also, when I'm in the mood, I'll double up his normal saddle pad with a
square Roma Air-Flo saddle pad underneath. All the extras except for
the bit keepers go off for shows and clinics.
2) Rick's one of those thin-skinned TBs that can develop bad girth
sores, so I like to ride him in a girth cover as much as possible. The
SMBs are because he had a major problem with kicking himself in the
front legs when he jumps and also brushing his fetlocks together when he
walks and trots. I like SMBs better than polos because they supossedly
offer more support and are more protective than polos, and although
regular splint boots do the job just as well as SMBs do at protecting
him, I prefer the look better, as well as the support that SMBs give.
The bit keepers are my pet peeve. If you have a full cheek, it drives
me nuts if you don't have bit keepers. Tacky and I think that you can
afford the $1.98 that they cost!! The Roma Air-Flo usually I like to
use in the summers because it really does work, even though it shrinks a
LOT when you wash it. However, it's good for TX summers, and I like
seeing the honeycomb marking on Ricky becaue I know it's working. They
work better than all of the cheaper ones, and that's really good for the
heat down here.
3) the Roma AirFlo tends to make him cooler, or at least that's what
it's supposed to do. The boots protect him and support him. His girth
cover protects against rubs. The bit keepers satisfy my pet peeve. <G>
From: Katie Schutz
1)
For Jacob, I use woof boots and bell boots. Those are the only extras
for him. Abrahaam also wears bell boots, as well as a raised saddle
pad. He used to have a lollipop pad, but the raised saddle pad is just
easier...it's not as intrusive. On Farley (I don't really *ride* her
anymore, not regularly, just bareback for fun, or at gymkhanas g 12.2hh
ponies are easy to remount), we use a crupper.
2)
Jacob: Woof Boots - protection when we jump. Bell Boots - Keep him from
over reaching and pulling shoe.
Abrahaam: Raised pad: It seems most saddles slip back on Abrahaam, so we
use this to prevent that. Bell Boots - This horse over reaches like
crazy...he wears bell boots all the time now (Vet and Farrier orders <G>).
(He pulled off three shoes in one week once)
**Abrahaam also always wears a mohair girth...he's *very* sensitive to
leather girths, and gets sores within as short a time as a half
hour...even when we put a "fuzzy" girth cover on, it still manages to
chafe.
Farley: Crupper: Keeps the saddle from traveling up her neck...of
course, if she didn't *buck* so much, it may not do that so much g She
really doesn't have any withers to speak of, though.
3)
Jacob: Bell Boots and Woof Boots: Well, they don't really effect him,
they're just there as a "just in case" thing. The woof boots offer
extra support though. The only thing they really cause is for Jacob to
sigh heavily while I'm putting them on <G>
Abrahaam: The raised saddle pad prevents the saddle from slipping back,
and absorbs some "shock" to his back...he's a very sensitive boy :) The
bell boots just prevent the unnecessary and costly removal of his shoes
Farley: Crupper doesn't effect anything...just does it's
job...preventing the saddle from riding up her neck.
From: "Lindsay T"
Subject: Tack and such
1) Splint Boots. Depending on the horse, a flash noseband on the
bridle. (used with Sing, and I think maybe Vikki?)
2) The Splint boots were used during jumping to protect their legs if
the horse raps a rail/crashes through a jump because of rider error,
etc... (Marcy's horses do NOT crash through jumps because of equine
error with her students on them, unless it's a freak accident, or she
gets on and fixes what ever the problem may be <G>
The flash, becaues Marcy told me to - I really didn't see the purpose of
it, as Singd id NOT run around with her mouth open without it, but it
did seem to increase Sing's responsiveness and lessen her
freight-train-mode.
3) The Splint boots, as far as I know, are just to protect against
bumps/bad stumbles where they might knock their foreleg into something,
or hit it with their hindleg, and such. They may serve another purpose,
but I have no time for the research right now...
The flash, theoretically, keeps a horse's mouth shut whilst being
ridden, but we used it simply to increase the responsiveness to the bit.
That was Marcy's explanation for it..
From: Meg Sinclair
I use two saddle pads: a "baby quilt" which is a small, thin (less than
..5cm thick) white square pad made of quilted cotton. Then, I have a
fuzzy shaped saddle pad that goes over that. The baby pad is just so
that the shaped pad doesn't get dirty. I have 5-6 baby pads in rotation
between the wash and the barn <G>. I guess they're both used so that the
saddle doesn't rub his skin and make him uncomfortable. I don't use any
other "extras". SMBs, sometimes, when I'm having a jumping lesson. Just
to provide a bit of extra support and shield his legs from a bonk if he
knocks a rail. I'm big on "simple" riding, I don't like it when people
use a whole lot of tack and gadgets, or shortcuts of any kind. I don't
like how the hunter world is becoming so "style-oriented". The thing it
takes the most of to train a horse is time. I ride my horse in a plain
snaffle bridle with an eggbutt snaffle, and a jumping saddle and two
saddle pads, and one girth. There's all of my equipment. I never intend
on riding in any other tack. Oh... I wear spurs, to re-enforce my leg
aids. My legs alone aren't really strong enough yet to make my aids
really clear. They will be though, eventually.
From: Pamela Okerholm
1) I use a standing martingale on Jeffrey when we jump.
2) Just in case, he doesn't need one really, so I don't always use it.
He likes to carry his head really high, but to prevent that all you have
to do (though it's a lot of work) is get him to go round and in the
bridle).
3) Bumps him in the nose when he throws his head up, or since he doesn't
toss his head, puts pressure on his nose when he holds his head too
high. (okay, that's the affect ;-)) not much with me, but with the
beginners it keeps him from holding his head way too high.
From: Melissa Eidson
1) It depends on the event or horse. On young horses, I'll use
martingales, and this is also used on cutting horses in training. On
speed horses, tie downs are usually used, along with barrel racing pads,
with regular saddle blankets, and either combo boots, or splint and bell
boots. On the roping horses, we'll have skid boots along with the splint
boots, and on all of the roping/speed horses we'll use roping reins. I
guess you can catagorize different bits in this, but that would take a
while with me! lol Also, breastcollars are used on all the horses, along
with back cinches on the roping and cutting horses.
2) For the bell boots/splint boots/combo boots, they're just for
protection, of course. In the sharp turns required in speed events, the
horses tend to step on themselves to get around. I've already explained
the tie downs, and with the roping reins, it's just less hassle. The
barrel racing pads on the horses is just used for extra support and
comfort, and it helps the saddle a little. Breastcollars are really
needed in roping and speed events, just to secure the saddle a little
more and keep it from slipping, because in these events, the saddle
takes alot of abuse (more so in roping than anything) Back cinches are
used in roping and cutting, again, for added support, because, don't
forget, that roping saddle needs all the strength it can get. It's
lugging around that 200 + lb guy (on average. I'm not 200 lbs, nor am I
a guy :), and dragging a 700 lb cow. Cutting is just...well, quick :)
3) What effect do these extras have?
It think they are all pretty explanatory, myself.
From: Kelly and OJ
Hmm...no extras on OJ. None on Lacey when I rode her either (I miss
Lacey!! As if you all didn't know that!)
He uses a gel pad because he is in his late teens. This gel pad is more
cushioning for his back and doesn't make the saddle such a burden to
him. Usually when I ride school horses I don't need anything special.
They are hardy animals :)
OJ's in her late teens too, but she's a former school horse :-)
Melissa and Cajun
1) Well, Cajun always goes out in galloping boots and bell boots...we
usually start with a quick longe to see what kind of kinks he has that
day. His rider gets an industrial strength knee brace and back brace.
2) The boots protect his legs while we're longeing/jumping and his bell
boots protect him in the case of "accidental forgeing". My knee brace
keeps my knee from hurting and pretty much holds it together. The back
brace supports my back so that it doesn't hurt as badly.
3) Effect? Nothing much. Sometimes Cajun decides to spook at the fact
he's wearing bell boots (and he wears them for 90% of the time for work)
and he'll hop around or try to get them off. He doesn't much mind the
galloping boots. My knee and back don't hurt as badly after a good hour
or so of riding and I can train longer.
From: Dee and Pistola
1) I use a pair of SMBs on Pistol's front legs normally. I use a
dressage pad under my saddle. That's all :)
2) I use the SMBs to provide some protection for his lower legs (he's
kinda clumsy) and if they offer support, more power to them. They're
mainly for protection (and they were $11 used!).
The pad is just to provide some comfort and protection for his back.
3) The SMBs are claimed to help prevent injuries, for us it's mainly to
make sure he doesn't slice his leg and have the DQP say its a scar from
soring.
The pad will hopefully provide him comfort.
From: Lynn
1) Flash, SMB IIs, Bell Boots, bounce pad
2) Flash - when I started jumping him he would get strong to jumps
(especially low ones), so my trainer put him back in a flash (he was in
one before I started riding him) to keep his mouth around the bit before
jumps during courses
SMB IIs - to protect his legs if he hits a jump that does not knock
right down (like the wooden "stone" wall in the arena or the flower box)
Bell Boots - so that if he over steps he does not hurt himself, or for
when he is in the field and playing he doesn't hurt his heals when the
other horse steps on him (going to put on back ones soon because Conway,
other horse, took of a chunk of Ben's heal)
Bounce Pad - Selle Francias have prominant withers, and Ben is no
exception... I had an xwide saddle and the Bounce pad was to keep from
rubbing
3) Flash - keeps his attention on the bit during courses, when he
thinks we are field hunting, and we are doing regular hunters.
SMB IIs - have protected his legs when someone else rode him THROUGH a
wooden gate (Scared me half to death, she isn't allowed to ride him
anymore), and when he has been lazy and not picked up at all for a 2'9"
wooden block wall.
Bell Boots - hmmm, don't know if they HAVE helped, because I never have
them off to see what happens
Bounce Pad - helped keep his back comfortable while his
withers/shoulders were being muscled up
Rachel and Ricky
*Bit Keepers*
To tell you the truth, I've never heard a reason for using bit keepers
aside from the fact that I think it's tacky not to. It's just, for me
at least, a finishing touch like shining my boots or fixing my hair.
Although I think their purpose is to keep the top from bending 90
degrees all the way over when pressure is applied on the reins. I think
they're just balancers. I have seen a lot of people go without them,
though, even at A shows. One girl I specifically remember watching had
this awesome horse, a big black hunter, and I was watching her school
one day and noticed she didn't have bit keepers. Since most people
where I ride have show and schooling bridles, I figured she probably
just didn't use them on her schooling bridle. Nope. I went to a show
the next weekend and was watching her go and, yes, it was a different
bridle (fancier stitching and much cleaner) but she didn't have keepers on
that one either. It frustrated me the entire time...the bit kept moving
around and, for me, it totally detracted from her entire "look." The
judges, apparently, weren't as distracted. She came in first. :P
Although I think she got Reserve for the division so HA! Hehehe. I'm
suuuure it was because of the bit keepers.
From: Amanda and Magic
1) Other than saddle and bridle, what extras (wraps,
pads, martingales, cruppers, draw reins, etc.) do you
use on your horse when you ride?
OK.. Here's what Magic uses, or has used in his
previous training, so far with me..
Standing Martingale, Polo Wraps, SMB II (fore legs),
Green plaid event pad, White "shaped" pad,
Breastplate, running martingale, training fork, crop,
spurs, and bell boots
2) What is your reason for using these extras?
Standing Martingale: Magic throws his head when he
gets agitated, and we use this to prevent it
Polo Wraps: Magic already has bad legs, so they are
used to offer some form of support to his legs, and
protect them if he bumps into anything jumping or on
the flat
SMB II: Same as polo wraps.. Seem to offer more
support to the legs
Green Plaid Event Pad: To keep my saddle in a proper
fit and keep the bottom of my saddle clean *G* Stay
in place better than my other pad
White "shaped" pad: For shows, to look cor rect..
Keeps bottom of saddle clean
Breastplate: Magic's saddle tends to slip back, and I
want to keep it in place
Running Martingale: To get Magic to keep his nose
tucked in a bit.
Training Fork: Same difference, just used it with my
western tack
Crop: To reinforce leg aids that Magic doesn't
respond to
Spurs: Magic isn't very responsive, used to clarify
aids
Bell Boots: Has a tendency to over-reach from behind,
prevents damage to his already-bad hooves
3) What effect do these extras have?
LOL.. GOtta go through the list again
Standing Martingale: Prevents Magic from getting his
head up to high. Makes him pay a little more
attention when he's having those "bad" days
Polo Wraps: Offer the legs some support, and prevent
him from injuring himself when jumping
SMB II's: Same as Polo Wraps
Green Plaid Event Pad: Keep the bottom of my saddle
clean *G*
White "Shaped" Pad: ONce again, keep the bottom of my
saddle clean
Breastplate: It keeps Magic's saddle in the more
correct position
Running Martingale: Makes it easier (yes, a short
cut. But I don't use this on him anymore) to get
Magic's nose tucked in
Training Fork: Helped to bring his head down and
tuck his nose in for western
Crop: This makes my horsey buck and be nasty *G*
Makes him respond to aids
Spurs: They clarify what I mean in my aids
Bell boots: They keep my horse from forging, and
hurting himself.
For both horses, draw reins through a running martingale, ankle chains,
strechers, blinkers, white cutback saddle pad.
2) What is your reason for using these extras?
Draw reins through martingale- Acts as leverage instead of using a curb,
prevents the overuse of a curb
ankle chains- added weight to the feet, teaches the horse to step out of
them, timing
strechers- builds muscle, cadence
blinkers- focuses attention on work at hand
white cutback saddle pad- keeps saddle cleaner and easier on the horse's
back
3) What effect do these extras have?
Draw reins through martingale- they are both happier in their mouths and I
rely less on my curb
ankle chains- Bomber's hitch is less pronounced and Beamer is working better
in his shoulders
strechers- Both are working better in their shoulders and have more definded
muscles, Both are working towards their full potential animation wise.
blinkers- both are better focused and using their ears
pad- My saddle is clean and no back problems
From: Kaite and Sonny
1) Other than saddle and bridle, what extras (wraps, pads, martingales,
cruppers, draw reins, etc.) do you use on your horse when you ride?
*Sonny: (he's mostly ridden bareback and w/a halter) Sports Medicine
Boots (sorry Laura - I love these things! They were my first -major-
horse purchase in 7th grade, all by myself. I was actually ordering the
SMB I, in green, on sale, but they didn't have that color and they just
sent me SMB II for no extra charge! I was thrilled!)
*Hope: when longing: side reins, when jumping: SMBs or polos
2) What is your reason for using these extras?
*Sonny: He's bowed his one tendon a couple of times, and now if we're
doing any real work he has them on... The goal is to support his tendons
more.
*Hope: She has had some hesitancy and resistance when attempting to
achieve a contact, and being asked to collect, respectively. When
jumping, there's always the possibility that she might bring down a rail.
3) What effect do these extras have?
*Sonny: although new studies are supposedly saying that boots on the
market today don't really offer support, I've never seen one myself, and
even if the SMB's don't they aren't hurting him. And what seems to
contradict this is I've heard that you shouldn't wear these "supportive
boots" every time you ride because the horse will grow dependent on
them... Well, so far we've had success, in summer after a fairly hard
riding session, in addition to wearing those boots only during the ride,
afterwards he gets his legs hosed cold and liniment.
*Hope: the side reins help her to learn to give to the bit and establish
a feel, help with collection. They provide resistance on her mouth and
when she lowers and accepts the bit contact the rubber automatically
softens - it has a give. (The side reins are only used at the trot, it
is dangerous to use them both at the canter because they don't give
enough to follow the motion that the horse makes in the canter - its
considerably more than at the trot) When jumping, she has some sort of
wrap on her legs just to protect her is she were to bring down a rail and
hit herself.
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